bugMyPaint - Bugs: bug #18545, Del on single layer documents...

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bug #18545: Del on single layer documents resets filename, is confusing

Submitted by:  David REVOY <deevad>
Submitted on:  Mon Aug 22 14:09:13 2011  
Severity: 2 - MinorPriority: 3 - Low
Status: FixedPrivacy: Public
Assigned to: Martin Renold <martinxyz>Open/Closed: Closed
Release: 0.9 Git master ppaPlanned Release: None
Operating System: linux mint / ubuntu natty11.04

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Fri Jan 4 18:10:26 2013, comment #12:

This bug is already Fixed in git, but is marked as Open. I am now
marking it Closed because a new stable version, 1.1.0, is
available, meaning that this bug no longer affects the current
stable release.

Please reopen if this problem reoccurs with the new version of

Andrew Chadwick <achadwick>
Project Administrator
Sat Sep 24 12:39:59 2011, comment #11:

ok, then :

  • 'Del=clean layer'
  • 'Ctrl+N=New document'

Discution seams over about this topic.

David REVOY <deevad>
Project Member
Sat Sep 24 12:17:21 2011, comment #10:

Fixed in git.

No, if I have to press Shift-Del, I can as well press Ctrl-N instead. It was only convenience that put me into the habit of starting a new document with Del.

Martin Renold <martinxyz>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Thu Sep 22 13:54:42 2011, comment #9:

Ok, for splitting 'save-as-scrap' discussion to another thread.
Also, ok for the conventionnal Del='clean layer' only.
Maybe a Shift+Del can perform a 'delete all' ?

David REVOY <deevad>
Project Member
Thu Sep 22 13:25:48 2011, comment #8:

Let's move the discussion about scrap to bug #18720 and focus this report only on the "del" issue now (as the title says).

I personally like the solution "del = Ctrl-N, backspace = clear layer", but it's inconsistent with both GIMP and Krita ("del = clear layer"). Better to forget about my strange habits and just make it work the same as in all other programs (and I reconfigure it for me locally).

Martin Renold <martinxyz>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Wed Sep 21 11:35:03 2011, comment #7:

Ok, good to know your usage of it , that make sens.
Studying this ; I can propose this :

I propose an update of "save as scrap". The behavior would be the same as actual 'Save as Scrap' except when working on a file with already a name, to also increment keeping the base name, or detect if there is already a increment number to do increase. With this, I can open each *.ora file on my hardrive, then press F2 or the '+' new icon on the toolbar to save incremental without having to pose my both hands on keyboard to type or rename the file manually to a new revision.

For the 'Del' key, I think the actual design of it was cool for the single layer time, but now can lead to confusion.
Maybe :
'Del' = Ctrl+N , so create a new document ( going to default background and keeping frame size if enabled ) I remember a painting program who choosed a skull&bones as an icon for this ; it wasn't looking good Ui wise, but worked well :-)
'Backspace' = clean layer ( and even if the image is a mono-layered image keep filename , if the picture got one of course )

Like this it will change nothing for Martin, using F2 + Del ; and for me will bring a save incremental on my files, and a cleaner way to delete or clean a layer only.

Also , for the a~z increment. I would prefer when file are superior to the _z revision , to increment from _z_a , _z_b, _z_c etc... than to overwrite the _a revision with the _z+1 one.

David REVOY <deevad>
Project Member
Wed Sep 21 09:54:09 2011, comment #6:

I had another idea about the "Del" key. Maybe we could keep the active filename, but remember to ask for overwrite confirmation once in case the user saves with Ctrl-S.

Martin Renold <martinxyz>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Wed Sep 21 09:33:22 2011, comment #5:

About the Del key: I made it to reset the filename because I often did load a few of my old scraps, hit Del, and start a completely new image. One time, an hour later, I hit Ctrl-S. Ouch, previous image is lost. But maybe I should just get into the habit of pressing Ctrl-N instead of Del?

About the revision limit: this is a new bug in git, MyPaint 0.9.1 will start again with "a" if you reach "z" but also increment the scrap number at the same time. But no point to fix this if numbers are prefered there too.

About the proposal "2) Save New revision / Save Incremental Version: This new one would be active only if the active artwork as already a filename and a path to save it."

This is not good for me because I need a single key to execute a "non-destructive save". I usually don't want to stop thinking of a file name, and certanily not about whether I am saving for the first or for the second time. As it is now, with only "F2" all my scraps are automatically grouped to easily browse and clean up. I have a collection of around 230 nameless scraps created this way, most of them with two or three revisions. Maybe five or ten of them got a name afterwards.

If this "Save New revision" action would always be active, and also create a new scrap if there is no filename, it would be fine with me (and in fact work exactly the same as F2 does now).

Martin Renold <martinxyz>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Wed Sep 21 05:21:20 2011, comment #4:

Hey Thanks Andrew for the scrapbook new icons in toolbar ; '+ <- ->' Sure, it's easier to play with them now, and see the real effect, I will keep them displayed now :)

For the behavior, something that could fix the problem, would be to split the function into 2 parts :

- Save As new scrap ( new scrapname_xxx +1 )
- Save New revision / Save Incremental Version ( new incremental suffix _b to _z )

1) Save As new scrap
Will always create a new scrap, based on +1 of the last existing scrap ( as behaving now ) , exemple :

2) Save New revision / Save Incremental Version
This new one would be active only if the active artwork as already a filename and a path to save it. It can work on scrap, but also on other file on the harddrive, making my workflow also faster when saving ( less keyboard centric saving for me ) exemple :

Of course, I'm not fond of revision name with a-z of the current scrap system ( and mostly , because after 26 revision , Mypaint have a error , reset the filename , read the error detail here : http://www.pasteall.org/25045/bash ).

A similar feature as (2) was bringed in Krita named 'Save Incremental Version' (in 'File' Menu) and add the suffix _001 then _002 etc... etc... allowing 999 revision ( confortable , because it happens to me to cross the 100 revision sometime ). I would really like the 2 softwares can works together bringing new revision on *.ora files easily.

Maybe the final design for a scrap with revision could be :
scrap001_001.ora ?

Thank you for your time.

David REVOY <deevad>
Project Member
Tue Sep 20 19:39:00 2011, comment #3:

The behaviour is odd, and confused me at first too. I've just added Scrapbook Switcher arrows to the toolbar which can be used to flip through your scraps. Weirdly, I find this makes the structure of the scraps area much easier to understand and experiment with (the buttons are right under the titlebar, I got an "aha!" moment)

More tooltips, and I've explained that Save As Scrap makes new revisions. David: can you pull the latest master and see if the switcher buttons make sense? You'll have to turn the controls in with the right-button toolbar context menu.

(I think the behaviour is right though: Next and Prev should take you to the most recent versions of each scrap)

(That said, regarding Del on a single-layer document: I think that behaviour sucks. Retitling and marking as Confirmed till we decide what to do about it. Not too serious or high-priority though.)

Many thanks for all the testing!

Andrew Chadwick <achadwick>
Project Administrator
Mon Aug 22 19:38:11 2011, comment #2:

Thanks Andrew for checking it.
In fact, that's my fault and you should close the bug report : I just misunderstood how Mypaint worked on this point. Open previous and next are not broken. I'm stupid today.

In a array of artworks names like this :

Mypaint navigate like this :
scrap001_a.ora <> scrap002_b.ora <> scrap003_c.ora

My fault was to do this new storyboard with layer ( because of a template ) . So I do my storyboard frame001_a.ora with a layer, and so pressing 'Del' erased the layer. Pressing F2 after make a new frame001_b.ora / frame001_c.ora ~~ till frame001_f.ora , at this stage Mypaint can't use previous ( now I understand why ). But if you open frame001_b.ora you can use 'Next' to jump to frame001_f.ora.

What I did usually :
I used normally this with a single layer, and with a single layer when you press 'Del' , Mypaint just reset the filename as if it was a new filename. Then pressing F2 / Del produce :
frame001_a.ora / frame002_a.ora ~~ frame009_a.ora ; in this case previous and next is working.

So, now, I now I have to Ctrl+N or erase all my layer to press 'Del' and reset Mypaint scrapbook counter for another number, and not letter.

Sorry for wasting your time. Stupid misunderstooding of this feature. ( don't change it, it's intelligent like that. )

David REVOY <deevad>
Project Member
Mon Aug 22 18:38:27 2011, comment #1:

It's working for me here. Do you see the keys still bound in the File menu? Any error messages anywhere (console included)?

Andrew Chadwick <achadwick>
Project Administrator
Mon Aug 22 14:09:13 2011, original submission:

Regression : Open previous scrap (F6) broken . Open next scrap works, but not "open previous".
A bit annoying for doing storyboard today as I get used to have this feature working correctly.

David REVOY <deevad>
Project Member


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  • -unavailable- added by martinxyz (Posted a comment)
  • -unavailable- added by achadwick (Posted a comment)
  • -unavailable- added by deevad (Submitted the item)

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    Follow 8 latest changes.

    Date Changed By Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced By
    Fri Jan 4 18:10:26 2013achadwickOpen/ClosedOpen=>Closed
    Sat Sep 24 12:17:21 2011martinxyzStatusConfirmed=>Fixed
      Assigned toNone=>martinxyz
    Tue Sep 20 19:39:00 2011achadwickSeverity3 - Normal=>2 - Minor
      Priority5 - Normal=>3 - Low
      StatusNeed Info=>Confirmed
      SummaryOpen previous scrap (F6) broken=>Del on single layer documents resets filename, is confusing
    Mon Aug 22 19:35:49 2011achadwickStatusNone=>Need Info
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