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bug #20501: Help could be clearer about CanFortify defence bonus vs cities

Submitted by:  Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Submitted on:  Tue 12 Feb 2013 10:01:29 AM UTC  
 
Category: docsSeverity: 3 - Normal
Priority: 5 - NormalStatus: Fixed
Assigned to: Jacob Nevins <jtn>Open/Closed: Closed
Release: Operating System: Any
Planned Release: 2.4.0,2.5.0

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Wed 20 Feb 2013 12:05:47 PM UTC, comment #11:

> For jtn wondering what to put to NEWS:

Thank you :) I was wondering exactly that. --jtn

Anonymous
Wed 20 Feb 2013 11:59:27 AM UTC, comment #10:

> I believed it to affect client side win chance display only.


For jtn wondering what to put to NEWS: "believed unit_win_chance() to affect client side win chance display only" and the change affecting unit_win_chance() in turn was specific to city defense, for which you cannot see the client side chance display -> sum is no user-visible change.

Marko Lindqvist <cazfi>
Project Administrator
Wed 20 Feb 2013 11:44:51 AM UTC, comment #9:

> One thing i've noticed in conjunction with server-side
> auto-attack: units that have been given the 'Fortify' command
> can be reliably counted on to engage approaching enemies.


Sounds opposite of what it should be. Fortified units have have better defense, so they should be less likely to find attack better option than waiting in defense. Attack also removes their fortified status, so it weakens their defense value against further attackers.

I noticed that unit_win_chance() is used by autoattack. Some of the recently fixed defense bugs affected it, but I believed it to affect client side win chance display only.

Marko Lindqvist <cazfi>
Project Administrator
Tue 19 Feb 2013 11:56:27 PM UTC, SVN revision 22390:

Document more thoroughly CanFortify units' defense bonus in cities.

See gna bug #20501.

(Browse SVN revision 22390)

Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Tue 19 Feb 2013 11:53:03 PM UTC, SVN revision 22388:

Document more thoroughly CanFortify units' defense bonus in cities.

See gna bug #20501.

(Browse SVN revision 22388)

Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Mon 18 Feb 2013 02:51:10 PM UTC, comment #6:

> I haven't played with autoattack, but this sounds like a bug to me. Can you raise a
> new ticket about this with some more detail?


Let me set up a reproducible test case.

David Lowe <doctorjlowe>
Mon 18 Feb 2013 10:06:42 AM UTC, comment #5:

Patch applies to S2_3, but I may defer applying it until it's clear that touching strings there is worthwhile.

(file #17245)

Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Mon 18 Feb 2013 10:03:38 AM UTC, comment #4:

> I vaguely wonder about making this clearer in the UI [...]

Raised separately as patch #3718.

> Then there are Worker-type units, which gui shortcut 'f' makes
> to build fortress instead of fortifying. They still have
> "CanFortify" flag, so I think gui is the only think preventign
> them from havign forifying action too - in theory modified
> client could send fortify request for them.

It won't be honoured though, I believe -- (UTY)F_SETTLERS units are explicitly prevented from fortifying IIRC (we guessed that the reason is purely this UI one).

> One thing i've noticed in conjunction with server-side
> auto-attack: units that have been given the 'Fortify' command
> can be reliably counted on to engage approaching enemies. Units
> that have been given the 'Sentry' command aren't as courageous.

I haven't played with autoattack, but this sounds like a bug to me. Can you raise a new ticket about this with some more detail?

Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Tue 12 Feb 2013 10:50:16 PM UTC, comment #3:

One thing i've noticed in conjunction with server-side auto-attack: units that have been given the 'Fortify' command can be reliably counted on to engage approaching enemies. Units that have been given the 'Sentry' command aren't as courageous. Thus, there is still a benefit to having the manual fortify command.

> Then there are Worker-type units, which gui shortcut 'f' makes to build fortress instead of fortifying.


When i was new, this part was somewhat confusing that the same command does two different things. Besides, there have been times when i wished i could have a worker just hunker down to the mountain for a turn or two. However, that is getting out of the scope of a 'docs' ticket.

David Lowe <doctorjlowe>
Tue 12 Feb 2013 06:53:55 PM UTC, comment #2:

Then there are Worker-type units, which gui shortcut 'f' makes to build fortress instead of fortifying. They still have "CanFortify" flag, so I think gui is the only think preventign them from havign forifying action too - in theory modified client could send fortify request for them.

Marko Lindqvist <cazfi>
Project Administrator
Tue 12 Feb 2013 10:05:36 AM UTC, comment #1:

I vaguely wonder about making this clearer in the UI -- currently there's nothing stopping players from needlessly fortifying their units in cities in the mistaken belief that this will help. Perhaps if units in cities never reach "fortified" state (grey fort icon) and are permanently "fortifying" (yellow "F") when inside cities, and if a city is built around them they go from fortified to fortifying, would hint (somewhat obliquely) that something funny is going on?

I don't want to take the order away entirely, as I sometimes use it as an alternative to Sentry when I don't want a unit to wake up and hassle me every time a foreigner passes by.

Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Tue 12 Feb 2013 10:01:29 AM UTC, original submission:

CanFortify units get their fortify defence bonus automatically when in cities, regardless of what they're doing. I somehow hadn't twigged that this was tied to the CanFortify flag; it became apparent when reviewing patch #3672.

The built-in help has this to say on the subject:

In individual unit help:

Could helpfully point out that this happens automatically in cities.

In helpdata.txt, section "Combat" ("Default Combat Rules"):

All of this text is flagged as being for the default ruleset, so it's more excusable here.

Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.

 

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Attached Files
file #17245:  trunk-S2_4-S2_3-help-canfortify-city-bonus.patch added by jtn (2kB - text/x-patch - trunk/S2_4/S2_3 r22369)

 

Depends on the following items: None found

Items that depend on this one: None found

 

Carbon-Copy List
  • -unavailable- added by doctorjlowe (Posted a comment)
  • -unavailable- added by cazfi (Posted a comment)
  • -unavailable- added by jtn (Submitted the item)
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    Follow 6 latest changes.

    Date Changed By Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced By
    Tue 19 Feb 2013 11:57:28 PM UTCjtnStatusReady For Test=>Fixed
      Open/ClosedOpen=>Closed
      Planned Release2.3.5,2.4.0,2.5.0=>2.4.0,2.5.0
    Mon 18 Feb 2013 10:06:42 AM UTCjtnAttached File-=>Added trunk-S2_4-S2_3-help-canfortify-city-bonus.patch, #17245
      StatusNone=>Ready For Test
      Planned Release=>2.3.5,2.4.0,2.5.0
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