bugFreeciv - Bugs: bug #21350, Supplied scenario start positions...

 
 
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bug #21350: Supplied scenario start positions vs core nations

Submitted by:  Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Submitted on:  Sun 15 Dec 2013 11:25:19 AM UTC  
 
Category: NoneSeverity: 2 - Minor
Priority: 5 - NormalStatus: Fixed
Assigned to: Jacob Nevins <jtn>Open/Closed: Closed
Release: Operating System: Any
Planned Release: 2.5.0, 2.6.0, 3.0.0

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(Jump to the original submission Jump to the original submission)

Mon 16 Feb 2015 08:44:49 AM UTC, SVN revision 28180:

Reduce France / North America scenarios' aifill so that they don't
run out of start positions for core nations.

See gna bug #21350.

(Browse SVN revision 28180)

Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Mon 16 Feb 2015 08:32:40 AM UTC, SVN revision 28174:

Reduce France / North America scenarios' aifill so that they don't
run out of start positions for core nations.

See gna bug #21350.

(Browse SVN revision 28174)

Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Mon 16 Feb 2015 08:22:09 AM UTC, SVN revision 28167:

Reduce France / North America scenarios' aifill so that they don't
run out of start positions for core nations.

See gna bug #21350.

(Browse SVN revision 28167)

Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sat 14 Feb 2015 03:01:59 PM UTC, comment #6:

We're left with the three slightly ugly scenarios (that is, will spawn inappropriate nations) from comment #3:

  • british-isles-85x80-v2.80.sav: only 1 start position in core, default aifill 5
  • france-140x90-v2.sav: only 15 startpos in core, aifill 18
  • north_america_116x100-v1.2.sav: only 10 startpos in core, aifill 12

The last two we could deal with by simply reducing aifill a little (unless anyone feels strongly that that upsets balance).

british-isles I think there's nothing we can do about so we just live with it.

I don't think there's anything more exciting we can do in later branches.

Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sun 01 Feb 2015 12:59:50 PM UTC, comment #5:

Is there something to consider as an regression from 2.4? Or is this just that the new "core nationset" feature is not as complete as it could?
Do we have any plans for this affecting S2_5? Do we have any future plans (possibly something that requires changes not permitted in S2_5 due to format freezes) for this (i.e., do we want to retarget this)?

Marko Lindqvist <cazfi>
Project Administrator
Sun 18 Jan 2015 11:57:12 AM UTC, comment #4:

> * earth-160x90-v2.sav: new 30/38 in core; aifill 30
> * earth-80x50-v3.sav: 16/18 core; aifill 10

As of patch #5487:

  • earth-160x90-v2.sav: new 32/39 in core; aifill 32
  • earth-80x50-v3.sav: new 39/50 startpos support core nations; aifill 10
Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sun 06 Jul 2014 09:38:56 AM UTC, comment #3:

> When the core nation set is rigidly enforced [...] our supplied
> scenarios which specify nation-specific start positions will
> cause trouble

Oh, past-me, why so vague?

I'm guessing that by "trouble" I meant "looks a bit ugly", in that the game may have to choose nations which aren't in the scenario, and then match them to start positions that were designed for someone else; and that there's no user indication of this until the game starts.

A mitigating factor is the default aifill in the scenario. If that's set so that there are sufficient 'core' nations to cover, you'll only see the ugliness if you change it or have very many human players. Otherwise those start positions which are for non-core nations will never be used with nationset=core, I think.

Anyway, I came back here to note that bardo tweaked one of the Earth scenarios under patch #4842 in a way which should improve this.

Survey of the scenarios previously marked as "troublesome":

  • british-isles-85x80-v2.80.sav: 1/5 in core; aifill not set, default 5 ugly
  • earth-160x90-v2.sav: new 30/38 in core; aifill 30
  • earth-80x50-v3.sav: 16/18 core; aifill 10
  • europe-200x100-v2.sav: 16/37 core; aifill 14
  • france-140x90-v2.sav: 15/27 core; aifill 18 ugly
  • north_america_116x100-v1.2.sav: 10/12 core; aifill 12 ugly
Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sat 21 Dec 2013 05:36:50 PM UTC, comment #2:

> (I'm also still working out what patch #3448 will do if it
> encounters a start position unusable in the current nationset --
> probably it will disable it and reduce the max players
> accordingly.)

As submitted, it doesn't try to reduce the number of players (similar to if the scenario defines startpos_nations).

It's possible to end up with no pickable nations, if start positions and naionset don't overlap -- but because the server will fall back to other nations in this case on game start, this is not actually treated as an error.

Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sun 15 Dec 2013 11:28:17 AM UTC, comment #1:

(I'm also still working out what patch #3448 will do if it encounters a start position unusable in the current nationset -- probably it will disable it and reduce the max players accordingly.)

Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sun 15 Dec 2013 11:25:19 AM UTC, original submission:

When the core nation set is rigidly enforced by default (patch #3448), our supplied scenarios which specify nation-specific start positions will cause trouble, due to some start positions only being usable by nations outside the core set. Details of individual scenarios below.

I haven't worked out quite what the right thing to do is yet, but some disorganised thoughts:

  • Could just specify a non-default nationset in the scenario, but the point of nation sets was to avoid people bumping into possibly-untranslated strings without choosing to, so having supplied scenarios reliant on them might not be ideal.
    • (Could also try to auto-fit nationset to start positions if none specified, similar to what patch #3448 is doing for players in old savefiles.)
  • Some scenarios are for small geographic regions (e.g., british-isles), so will inevitably want nations outside the core set.
  • We could specify that multiple nations can start at a given position, including core and more specific non-core nations -- the scenario format permits this -- but I'm reluctant to use this facility due to current poor UI -- players aren't given any indication that a given nation is a poor choice because its only start position has been ruled out by another player's choice of nation. Could add network signalling for this (possibly triggered by the same scenario option as bug #21268).
    • Possibly it would be useful for a scenario to be able to specify preferred nations for start positions, so that if a more specific nation is available it's picked over the core one? Not at all sure about this.

Survey of scenarios on trunk:

  • Troublesome scenarios
    • british-isles-85x80-v2.80.sav: 1/5 in core
      • Not core: Irish, Welsh, Cornish, Scottish
    • earth-160x90-v2.sav: 24/30 core
      • Not core: Gallic, Inuit, Manchu, Cambodian, Papuan, British
    • earth-80x50-v3.sav: 16/18 core
      • Not core: Australian Aboriginal, Inuit
    • europe-200x100-v2.sav: 16/37 core
      • Not core: Bavarian, Belgian, Bosnian-Herzegovinian, Bulgarian, Croatian, Czech, Estonian, Finnish, Hungarian, Icelandic, Irish, Israeli, Latvian, Lithuanian, Romanian, Scottish, Serbian, Slovakian, Slovenian, Swiss, Ukrainian
    • france-140x90-v2.sav: 15/27 core
      • Not core: Bavarian, Belgian, Catalan, Cornish, Finnish, Galician, Icelandic, Phoenician, Quebecois, Scottish, Swiss, Welsh
    • north_america_116x100-v1.2.sav: 10/12 core
      • Not core: Scottish, Irish
  • OK scenarios
    • japan-88x100-v1.3.sav: 8/8 core
    • hagworld-120x60-v1.2.sav: no start positions
    • iberian-peninsula-136x100-v1.0.sav: no nation-specific start positions
    • italy-100x100-v1.5.sav: no start positions
Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.

 

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Attached Files
file #23818:  trunk-S2_6-S2_5-scenarios-core-nations-startpos.patch added by jtn (1kB - text/x-patch - trunk/S2_6/S2_5 r28127)

 

Depends on the following items: None found

Digest:
   patch dependencies.

 

Carbon-Copy List
  • -unavailable- added by cazfi (Posted a comment)
  • -unavailable- added by jtn (Submitted the item)
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    Follow 7 latest changes.

    Date Changed By Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced By
    Mon 16 Feb 2015 08:48:47 AM UTCjtnStatusReady For Test=>Fixed
      Open/ClosedOpen=>Closed
    Sat 14 Feb 2015 03:41:26 PM UTCjtnStatusNone=>Ready For Test
      Assigned toNone=>jtn
      Planned Release2.5.0,2.6.0=>2.5.0, 2.6.0, 3.0.0
    Sat 14 Feb 2015 03:41:25 PM UTCjtnAttached File-=>Added trunk-S2_6-S2_5-scenarios-core-nations-startpos.patch, #23818
    Sat 14 Feb 2015 03:01:58 PM UTCjtnSeverity3 - Normal=>2 - Minor
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