patchFreeciv - Patches: patch #5007, civ2civ3: custom veteran names for...

 
 
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patch #5007: civ2civ3: custom veteran names for Engineers?

Submitted by:  Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Submitted on:  Fri Aug 1 12:10:03 2014  
 
Category: rulesetsPriority: 5 - Normal
Status: DonePrivacy: Public
Assigned to: Marko Lindqvist <cazfi>Open/Closed: Closed
Planned Release: 2.6.0, 3.0.0Contains string changes: None

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Wed Jan 27 22:15:00 2016, comment #12:

(Committed as r31636, r31637.)

Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Project Administrator
Sun Jan 24 22:36:43 2016, comment #11:

Patch

(file #26458, file #26459)

Marko Lindqvist <cazfi>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Thu Jan 21 08:11:48 2016, comment #10:

It's almost a year since suggestion of comment #8 with no further comments. They are acceptable then?

Marko Lindqvist <cazfi>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Tue Feb 17 18:22:26 2015, comment #9:

I have realized that transports can raise the veteran level while cleaning pollution. This was not intended, and I'm not liking it.

I'll created a new ticket, bug #23290, to fix the transports, and to reduce the veteran_work_raise_chance of engineers (as suggested here).

I'll keep this ticket for the custom names, that I'm not confident to change.

David Fernandez <bardo>
Sun Feb 1 17:24:54 2015, comment #8:

"beginner", "seasoned", "senior" and "expert"?

David Fernandez <bardo>
Sun Feb 1 17:11:56 2015, comment #7:

I like the idea of giving veteran chances to workers and reducing the chances to engineers, but I'm not sure about the best way.

In civ2civ3, like classic, the veteran power factors are 100, 150, 175, 200. And I'd like to keep it the same for combat and work.

I like the veteran chances from experimental rules:
veteran_work_raise_chance = 2, 1, 0
veteran_power_fact = 100, 125, 150

But I find confussing that veteran combatient has power 150%, while veteran worker with same icon has 125%.

And I think even this minimum chance would create too much veteran workers, if available from start:
veteran_work_raise_chance = 1, 0
veteran_power_fact = 100, 150

So, I'd vote to keep veterancy only for engineers:
veteran_work_raise_chance = 3, 2, 1, 0
veteran_power_fact = 100, 150, 175, 200

But they would require 4 veterancy names. What about "beginner", "seasoned", "senior" and "master"?

I'll do the patch if no better suggestions.

David Fernandez <bardo>
Sun Feb 1 09:10:25 2015, comment #6:

As it seems that the "balance" part of the ticket has been rejected, and this is now only about the names of the veterancy levels, don't consider this 2.5.0 blocker.

Marko Lindqvist <cazfi>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Wed Jan 28 06:34:51 2015, comment #5:

variant2 uses (including the workers from the beginning of the game): "beginner", "seasoned", "senior".

Marko Lindqvist <cazfi>
Project AdministratorIn charge of this item.
Sun Aug 3 12:43:09 2014, comment #4:

In spanish it'd be something like "obrero"(laborer), "capataz"(foreman), "perito"(?) and "titulado"(chartered).
But taking into account the scale, as you point, I'd prefer "experimentado"(experienced), "cualificado"(skilled), "experto"(expert), "especialista"(specialist), or something like that.

About the chances of veterancy, I like the values of experimental rules for workers that are there from the begining of the game, but engineers do not appear until the middle of the game, and it is not easy to keep them working 150 turns before the end of the game, without being killed by modern enemy units.

I find it easier to calculate the average number of turns needed to reach the next veterancy level. In the case of veteran_work_raise_chance = 3, 2, 1, 0, it would be 33, 50 and 100 turns (183 in total). I personally like it, but I see ok to use the values from experimental rules if people prefer them.

David Fernandez <bardo>
Sat Aug 2 23:56:18 2014, comment #3:

(file #15820 is the spreadsheet I use for playing with raise chances)

Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Project Administrator
Sat Aug 2 23:55:50 2014, comment #2:

> I'm not good choosing names, but I like the idea to give them
> custom names.

I'm struggling a bit. Some ideas include "casual labourer", "foreman", "chartered engineer" and the like. But the scale is a bit wrong (these are really corps of engineers or industrial consortia).

> I did not adjust the default values, but I played several games
> with those values and I liked it.

OK, we'll leave them alone.

> I see ok to reduce the chances of veterancy a bit. For example to:
> veteran_work_raise_chance = 3, 2, 1, 0

That yields 158 turns to 50% elite, and 24 turns to 50% veteran-or-better.


Now that Transports have some terrain improvement roles, should we consider a custom veteran system for them too?

Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Project Administrator
Sat Aug 2 13:24:35 2014, comment #1:

I'm not good choosing names, but I like the idea to give them custom names.

>Also, the bonus seems very generous; elite Engineers work 4x as fast as Workers, and an Engineer has a >50% chance of being elite after 127 turns of activity. Is this deliberate?

I did not adjust the default values, but I played several games with those values and I liked it.
Since early engineers can not perform terraforming (until research of fusion power), I tried to give them something that makes engineers worth to be researched and upgraded as fast as possible.

An average of 150 turns of work to get elite status sounds good to me, but I see ok to reduce the chances of veterancy a bit. For example to:
veteran_work_raise_chance = 3, 2, 1, 0

David Fernandez <bardo>
Fri Aug 1 12:10:03 2014, original submission:

The civ2civ3 Engineers can become veteran through work, but they still have the military veteran names (green/veteran/hardened/elite).

Perhaps they should have a custom veteran system with its own names? Compare apprentice/journeyman/master in the experimental ruleset (although since civ2civ3 Workers don't have veterancy, maybe we can pick more modern names).

Also, the bonus seems very generous; elite Engineers work 4x as fast as Workers, and an Engineer has a >50% chance of being elite after 127 turns of activity. Is this deliberate?

Jacob Nevins <jtn>
Project Administrator

 

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Attach File(s):
   
   
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Attached Files
file #26458:  EngineerRanks.patch added by cazfi (679B - text/x-diff)
file #26459:  EngineerRanks-S2_6.patch added by cazfi (670B - text/x-diff)

 

Depends on the following items: None found

Items that depend on this one: None found

 

Carbon-Copy List
  • -unavailable- added by cazfi (Posted a comment)
  • -unavailable- added by bardo (Posted a comment)
  • -unavailable- added by jtn (Submitted the item)
  • -unavailable- added by jtn (civ2civ3 maintainer)
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    Follow 12 latest changes.

    Date Changed By Updated Field Previous Value => Replaced By
    Wed Jan 27 16:47:26 2016cazfiStatusReady For Test=>Done
      Assigned toNone=>cazfi
      Open/ClosedOpen=>Closed
    Sun Jan 24 22:36:43 2016cazfiAttached File-=>Added EngineerRanks.patch, #26458
      Attached File-=>Added EngineerRanks-S2_6.patch, #26459
      StatusIn Progress=>Ready For Test
    Thu Jan 21 08:11:48 2016cazfiStatusNeed Info=>In Progress
    Thu Apr 30 02:19:48 2015cazfiPlanned Release2.5.1, 2.6.0, 3.0.0=>2.6.0, 3.0.0
    Sat Feb 21 11:30:02 2015jtnSummaryciv2civ3: custom veteran system for Engineers?=>civ2civ3: custom veteran names for Engineers?
    Sun Feb 1 09:10:25 2015cazfiPlanned Release2.5.0, 2.6.0, 3.0.0=>2.5.1, 2.6.0, 3.0.0
    Sun Feb 1 06:41:33 2015cazfiPlanned Release2.5.0, 2.6.0=>2.5.0, 2.6.0, 3.0.0
    Fri Aug 1 12:10:03 2014jtnCarbon-Copy-=>Added bardo
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